Quick check and drool, then Donny got to work. Faced off the headset and bottom shell and cleaned the threads. Didn't fit the bottom bracket yet, but did fit the head set cups. Also did a quick check of the rear drop-outs for alignment; they are perfect. Then it was off to get some supplies before that first feed. Lots of time to admire the paint, welds, braze-ons and stickers. Lots more braze-ons now!
She's now sitting in the kitchen on newspaper, oozing. Luckily I'm here alone, else I've a feeling we'd both be out in the garden shed. Feeding was messy. We both got covered. I won't need to moisturise tonight.
White Knight Rust Guard Fish Oil
isn't as fishy as it could be, but its not completely odourless. Maybe when it dries a bit more. Just need to shoo the neighbourhood cats away until then.
There are a lot of rust preventative products about. But, think of this: fish swim in the sea all day, and they don't rust.
Well, sheep don't rust either, but the hardware didn't have Lanolin, so fish oil it was.
It's gone 36C here today, so so maybe she will be dry by morning for assembly.
Been a while since I've been to Sculpture by the Sea. Got there early to try and avoid the crowds, but lots of other people had the same idea. Also forgot that early is when the joggers are out in force.
Of the sculptures, I liked these ants best:
But then, I like ants.
There were a couple of other interesting sculptures. But of the remainder, some wouldn't have been out of place in a playground. And some, you would have walked over them if they weren't fenced off with a little plaque telling you it was a sculpture.
I left thinking that overall, it was less than average. That this year, Sculpture by the Sea was relying more on the location for impressive than the sculptures.
I was still thinking about options for my frame repair, when an Anonymous poster suggested contacting
Surly
directly. I hadn't considered it, but thought why not. And they might provide information to help my decisions. I wasn't expecting them to offer anything else, given that mine was out of warranty. No harm in writing, and nothing to lose.
So I wrote:
Broken Surly Troll Frame at the weld.
Megan Webb
Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 9:04 AM
To: derby@surlybikes.com
Hi Guys,
I'm a fan of your bikes.
Lusted after the 1x1 for years
. Then I got a Troll. Just want I wanted; rack mounts, disk mounts, mudguard mounts, horizontal dropouts with Rohloff adaptor.
Its spent most of its life of touring in Australia, seeing lots of wonderful places. Many happy times we've had together, and I was expecting many more. But now, disaster has befallen.
Frame cracked at the weld on the rear dropout.
http://www.wanderingtime.com/2014/10/orange-sydney-broken-surly-troll-frame.html
My
local bike shop
, told me at 3 years, 8 months old, it's out of warranty. And so far estimates for repair are up to 3/4 the cost of a new frame, and at least a month, more likely several months wait. They are getting quotes from frame builders.
My dilemma:
I thought steel would last a lifetime. If it did have an unfortunate problem - I was thinking "crash damage", it would be repairable - unlike aluminium frames. I haven't crashed my bike, I've just toured with it - loaded panniers, water and lots of bumpy roads.
I'd be shrugging off this break if it was more years down the road, thinking I'd had a long use from it. But its had less than three years actual use, because one year was
off the bike
. Though, in those years, it has probably travelled over 20,000km.
What is a reasonable lifespan for your frames?
People have suggested that my gear use isn't typical - everyday, loaded touring. Though, I can't see why it isn't. It is a frame made for touring. I do consider the terrain, and at
times walk rather than ride
as I want my gear (bike, racks, panniers etc) to last. To date, I've not broken racks or mounting screws. I think my use isn't unreasonable for your frames?
With the cost of the repair being not that far from the cost of a new - repairable isn't looking very cost effective. It was said that the chain stay might need to be replaced as a break there indicates a "chain stay problem". I'm at lost to understand why the whole chain stay would need replacing, but this no doubt this adds to the repair cost.
With the repair cost not that far from a new frame cost, would I be better to consider a new frame, especially if the current chain stays have a problem? But then if my use is more than the frame supports, or more than can be expected from the frame, wouldn't a new frame break as well?
I realise that sometimes stuff happens, nothing is 100%, and that this break may just be that; unfortunate, but uncommon. And that another Troll frame would never break, and that with a repair, this frame might never have another problem again. But it has happened now, and to get travelling again I need to find a solution that I can have confidence in. I was fortunate that this break happened close to Sydney rather than the more remote corners of Australia I'd prefer to spend my time in.
Without my bike, I'm stranded. Wondering if to repair, or to buy new? If new, which frame - another Troll, and ECR, or? Is one going to last longer than the other? Or if unfortunately, Surly frames are not suitable for my requirements, if I should be looking at another brand all together.
Can you offer any help for this situation?
Regards
Megan Lee Webb
http://www.wanderingtime.com/
Surly responded quickly:
Busted Troll
Alexander Zidarevich
Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 10:00 AM
To: "Megan Lee Webb"
Hello Megan,
Thanks for contacting us about this unfortunate frame failure. Based on your type of use and what the troll is designed to do, you definitely should not have had this type of failure. I’m just glad you weren’t left high and dry in an even more remote area.
Do you have a local Surly shop that I can work with on getting you taken care of? Also, what size frame do you ride?
Thanks again for reaching out to us on this one!
AZ-
Alex Zidarevich |Int'l & OE Sales Lead - Surly Intergalactic |
"Two Possibilities Exist...Both are Equally Terrifying" - Arthur C. Clarke
I was very happy. My use wasn't a problem. I didn't know what the outcome would be, but was thinking suggestions on repair, or perhaps an offer of a discount on a new frame.
So I replied, putting them in touch with my bike shop.
Busted Troll
Megan Lee Webb
Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 10:47 AM
To: Alexander Zidarevich
Cc: Cheeky Monkey
Hi Alexander,
Wow!!! Thank you for getting back to me. And so fast too!
This is great news. Can't say how relieved I am that its just an unfortunate event and I've been unlucky and that I can stay with a Surly Troll.
I'm in Sydney, Australia, and dealing with the excellent staff at:
Cheeky Transport
http://www.cheekytransport.
com.au/
Ph: 02 9557 5424
3a Georgina St Newtown (
Map
)
e:
info@cheekytransport.com.au
They have been my bike shop for many years, and built the bike up originally. Helped me out no matter where I've been about the country.
Dropped the frame off there last Thursday and Maisey has been handling finding quotes.
Frame size: 16
Frame number: M10094857
Thank you so much!
Megan
Cheeky Transport
had spoken to a frame builder on the phone when I dropped the frame off. The pricing for repair was an estimate, frame unseen - which was why I was waiting for the actual quotes to arrive. Which was why I was wondering about what to do.
So was waiting for Surly and Cheeky Transport to converse and let me know the outcome.
Then this mornings email:
Busted Troll
Alexander Zidarevich
Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 3:23 AM
To: Megan Lee Webb
Cc: Cheeky Monkey
Hello Megan and Cheeky Monkey,
I want to send a new frame your way but I have a story and a question…
You see, long ago all of the Troll’s in the land held counsel under a bridge. While meeting and discussing many great Surly things they heard a clatter. Much to their surprise it was a dark and powerful prince on a quest to prove his worth. Now, everyone – even this dark prince – knows that you cannot simply cross a bridge with Trolls under it. You must first either do battle with the trolls or you must answer 3 of their riddles correctly. Now then, this prince was one of the strongest in the land and had won many battles in his day. His face was weathered and scarred from the battles he had fought. He was fearless. He was ruthless. He was destined to be king. Unlike many other princes before him, he was also very smart. He possessed a silver tongue that could weave the most intricate of webs in every single story he told. Point is, these Trolls had their work cut out for them on this day.
Each Troll took their turn trying to stump the dark prince but one by one, they failed. He was simply too clever and too smart. Finally the bravest of all Trolls challenged the dark prince to a battle. This troll, Orange in color, was thought to be one of the most ruthless fighters among all of his Troll brethren. Surely he would not be bested in combat by the dark prince.
As the sun began to set in the Western sky, the battle for the bridge commenced. Through the dark of night they fought. Exchanging blows in a driving, stinging rain until morning came. At sunrise, it was clear to see the scope of their battle. The landscape around both man and beast was decimated. The other Troll’s looked on in horror as both fighters continued to relentlessly attack each other.
This epic struggle carried on for 3 more days and nights. At the end of the 4
th
night, both man and beast, exhausted from battle declared that there could be no victor. Both were simply too strong and too determined to be defeated.
Proud to have finally met an adversary worthy of such a battle, greed began to set in. You see, an idea is sometimes the most dangerous weapon of all. This idea of theirs would drive them to the ends of the world. They vowed to travel together seeking all the power and riches of the world. They would never sleep, never eat, and they will never stop their relentless campaign of pain and intolerance. Once enemies, these two warriors now embark together to claim what is theirs….
And that’s where the last 16” Orange Troll disappeared to.
So, I will gladly send you another troll frameset but, it would have to be wither black or eggplant (see below). Please let me know which you would prefer and we’ll get one sent out to you.
Purple/Eggplant:
Black:
Thanks!
AZ-
How awesome is that! I'm getting a new frame! And I loved the story. When I stopped jumping up and down, punching the air in excitement, rather than just a quick, simple reply of thanks, gratitude and colour choice, I thought to get into the spirit and write a bit more.
Busted Troll
Megan Lee Webb
Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 6:08 AM
To: Alexander Zidarevich
Cc: Cheeky Monkey
Hello Alexander,
My joy knows no bounds.
After reading your story, I'm saddened to hear that the race of 16" Orange Trolls is no more.
Mine was born like all others. Through the seasons, it grew experienced and wise. Questing across the vast lands of Oz, over hill and dale, the vast planes of the outback, through weather fair and foul. It has been a faithful and loyal companion. Its absence leaves an empty place by my side. Sorely will it be missed.
While my heart grieves that that colour is no more, a Black Troll has been elected in its stead. Together, we will sallying forth, adding new deeds to the wandering chronicles.
Thank you so much!!! I'm so happy!
Megan
ps. maybe its just my eyes or the screen (or both), but the two pictures look the same colour to me. Even on your website, I don't see any difference in black or eggplant colour options. I have seen eggplant in store - at Cheeky Monkey though.
I will miss my Orange Troll. While I wasn't that keen on the colour originally (then, I wanted black). Over time, it grew on me. I got to like it, and given the choice would have it again.
Oh, I'm one very happy Surly owner this morning. Excellent service from Surly. I never expected that they would replace my frame. How can you say "thank you" enough?
I'd like to thank the Anonymous poster who suggested contacting Surly. Without that prompt, I probably wouldn't have done it, and still be sitting here thinking about what to do.
Also thanks to the crowd on Facebook in the "I love my Surly Ogre/Troll" group. I did get to see the link after the admins of the group helped. Because my Facebook account didn't have much on it, and most of that was private, spam filtering tagged me, and I was blocked. All fixed now. I might try and use Facebook a bit more now after the help from people. Just have to figure out how to use it with my travel, power budget and Internet plan.
On trying to get the frame repaired. Several people had said to just press the weld back into the break and get it welded. No need for a frame builder, or to fuss with alignment. The reason against this is that I run a Rohloff Hub. (Rohloff also have fantastic service btw). I had an annoyance once with it leaking oil out the drive side seal. Yeah, it can run without oil no problem. But I liked to keep it inside the hub and had time to get it looked at.
Quantum Bicycles
are an authorised repair agent by Rohloff. They put in a lot of time and effort into trying to find why my hub was leaking. New seals leaked within a week. In discussions with Rohloff Germany, the German engineers suggestions included checking frame/drop-out alignment. Rohloff hubs don't like being twisted. They do not have a solid axle through the centre. With the drop-outs not aligned, bolting up each side applied a twist to the hub. Only a tiny amount, but enough to affect the wear pattern of a part inside the hub and then the seals. It took time for this to occur - I'd ridden 1000's of kilometres by then. Rohloff replaced the internal part and seals for me - they didn't have too, as the cause of it was the drop-out alignment. With straight drop-outs, no leaking.
With where the break occurred on the frame, I didn't want to risk the drop-outs not being aligned and leave me with a problem down the road, all for not checking the alignment at repair time.
In case your wondering, like I was, about a Rohloff weight limit. I wrote to them asking about limits, and this is a bit of the reply:
the SPEEDHUB has
limits
as to the primary transmission ratio that is used. This is to make sure that the input torque to the hub is not too high and therefore damaging. There is no actual system
weight
limit
as such, but if you require a lower gear ratio to get the large mass in motion, then this may not be permitted.
Surly and Rohloff, both excellent customer service.
Can't really say enough about how grateful I am to
Surly
stepping in with this offer of a new frame. A huge weight off my mind about what to do. Can look forward to getting a new frame, and getting back on the road again.
Thank you Surly.
Comments:
Date: 2018-01-15 08:49
Author: Jim Croft
Nice of Surly. I work at a bike shop that sells Surly. I had an Orange Troll too, sold it to my brother in law. My son and I both ride Cross Checks now. Great bikes. I did see another Troll with a broken frame recently, though the guy is VERY heavy. Still steel frames should last a lifetime unless accident or corrosion happens.
Was a hot day; 37C. So was hoping to get finished by lunch time and find some shade. But with hills, a full load of water and a full belly of food and water, it was well past lunch and I was crawling along. After a short downhill into a dip and starting to pedal up out, I noticed a tapping sound in time with my pedalling. Don't remember that before. Bottom bracket? Pedal? Rack bolt? Was going to ignore it, but then thought I should have a look. Might just need a tighten, or worst case, need to think about order parts. Started poking about, but could find anything. Moved off, yep, still there. Hmmm.. Had a longer look.
Arrrrgghhh.. This is a problem!
Chain stay had broken right through where it was joined to the rear drop out. Darn!
Was totally lost for a bit. The tapping was gap opening and closing. Did some thinking. Decided not to keep riding. Needed to find a town and get repairs, or failing that, as I was not that far from Sydney, return there. Okay. Back to Wellington - were the XPT passes through and not that far from Dubbo, where might be able to find a welder. Thought about going into a farm house and asking for help - some metal, drill a hole in it, bolt it threw the axle, and then hose clamps. But decided not to worry - just walk back for now. 70km. Should take three days. That would work well - get there on Monday. Okay. Start walking.
I'd only just pushed off walking when a lady I'd talked to back in the last small town stopped to ask how I was doing.
"Badly! Frame just broke."
Turned out she lived near by and was on the way to pick up the kids.
I ended up staying with them for the weekend. Helped out on the farm - got to work with sheep. Trying to herd them into pens was interesting. I had thoughts about their brain power. But are they dumb, or smart enough to know what was going to happen?
Sheep are far smarter than previously thought
The lambs were getting some treatments.
Sunday, there was a scheduled power outage at their place. So rather than sit about in 38C heat, they dropped me in Orange and went shopping. Lovely family. Was fortunate to meet them.
Stayed at a caravan park, then Monday hunted the bike shops and engineering firms to see about a fix.
No joy with the bike shops.
Engineering shop. Grrrr.. Even less joy. Least the bike shop would say they couldn't help. The engineering/welding shop; I'd explained that its thin steel tube, the hub is important to me, and alignment of the drop outs very important. They have to be parallel. Rholoff hubs don't like being bent. But this didn't seem to be heard. I'd be told "its not that important, close enough will be fine." Argh.. I'm paying and I don't want "close enough". It's an engineering shop! They make components to within ±0.001 mm. Why do people think it doesn't matter because its a bicycle? Why don't they listen to the customer? One guy started levering the chain stay up using a screw driver, levering off the hub shell. I stopped that in a hurry. Just what I needed, the shell to break - needing a wheel rebuild. Then he reached for a hammer. I left.
Back to Sydney, stripped the frame down and gave it to a bike shop. But waiting for the quote now from a frame builder. I've been told it will not be quick - nothing less than a month, and price could be up to $600 to $700.
Waiting for the real quote, as I find that upper limit estimate hard to believe, and said so.
New frame is about $1000. Gone up, not down from when I bought mine. Mine is 3 years, 8 months old - out of warranty by 8 months. Not much point getting a steel frame if a break on a weld is going to cost a significant amount to repair. A new frame - and if it breaks at the same spot?
Waiting for the real quote. But also thinking about getting a jig made up to check the alignment and then trying another engineering/welding firm. Set it up in the jig, and then tell them 'weld this up'. And then I confirm the alignment.
Thinking about options, and waiting for more information.
Comments:
Date: 2014-11-05 07:01
Author: Anonymous
Go direct to Surly. BEFORE you get any work done locally!
It's not the sort of thing you'd expect to happen on a 3yo frame.
I'm sure a lot of folk (me included) would be keen to hear how you get on.
This article has been shared on Facebook, check some of the comments here:
My brother's Troll just did the same thing. His was under the 3 year warranty.
http://imgur.com/o7odOUi
Date: 2014-11-05 20:51
Author: Megan Lee Webb
Saw the first comment, and thought why not. I emailed Surly. Got a reply almost instantly that I should not have this type of failure. They are in contact with the bike shop now. I'll find out soon what the outcome is. I'll do a blog post as soon as I know more.
The frame is out of warranty. No work has happened yet, as was still getting quotes.
I tried to get on Facebook and see the comments. The page come up, and I read some, but now can't get back there, the link gives:
"This content is currently unavailable
The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page." Been that way all day now, and I can't find the group in search. Can you give me more information about the group so I can find it and join to comment?
Date: 2014-11-07 02:19
Author: Unknown
Hi, sorry, but you were blocked from Facebook group: 'I love my Surly Ogre/Troll' because you don't have much/if any content. Sorry, it's come to this, but there is so much spam that we look at profiles before adding users and if there's not much content or bicycle related content request are typically ignored or blocked.
Sorry for the trouble!
Please send another request and you'll be added.
Regards,
AC
Date: 2014-11-07 04:10
Author: Megan Lee Webb
Ah, that is why I couldn't see it any more. Yeah, had a fb account, but not used it in a long time. Even before that didn't post much, so I can understand how it might look like a spam account. Might have to do more with it now.
Could hear the car coming up the street; music thumping out and echoing off the buildings. Then it pulled into the park. Someone got out and went into the toilet block. Music stayed on. I could see the driver was still there, so, summoned up my courage and started walking over. As I did, he got out; six foot plus - I had to look up a long way past the tattoos various body and facial piercing.
"Errr, that music" I started to say.
His arm started stretching out...
"Noooo, No.. No.." I cried. "Done turn it off!!! Do you know the band?"
We chatted for a bit. I was hopeless with knowing the TV shows the singers had appeared in. I found the a couple of the songs on Youtube.com:
Ol'55: On the prowl
and
Ol' 55 : Two Faces Have I
Later I rode out of town again to camp. Spent half of Monday trying to find a Dentist. Lots of calling, leaving messages on answering machines. A problem for me as I kept missing the call backs - being out of mobile reception when they called back. Played a fair bit phone tag. But then got lucky. Called a dentist in Wellington and spoke to a real person and booked an appointment for the next week, with the option of sooner if someone cancelled.
Over a couple of days headed back towards Wellington, and then someone cancelled.
The dentist was wonderful. I'd stayed in town one night at the caravan park so that I didn't need to leave my bike and gear out on the street. Needed to go back the next day. And again the dentist helped by fitting me in. Even got a spot to leave my bike inside while I was getting repaired so I didn't need to stay in the park another night. So teeth all fixed now. The dentist cycles, so he suggested a route to see a bit of the "
Animals on Bikes
" art.
